[Mickle5]

Hi All,
I have been looking at buying a diesel D4 and note that in my price range there seems to be a mixture of 110 and 115 models. Were these both in production at the same time or what are the pros and cons of each. In short which is my best option? Thanks in advance

 

[PaulE]

I don't know how you're fixed financially, but if money would allow, I would include the 2.0Hdi in your deliberations. Everyone likes their own engine I suppose, but I have found the 160bhp engine a quiet, powerful and reliable motor. I had a similar one in a 2010 C5 and towed with it without problem and when I bought my DS4 I stuck to the same motor. It isn't necessarily significantly thirstier either, as shown on Honest John's real mpg stats (http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/realmpg/citroen/ds4-2011). It may be that you prefer the 1.6Hdi, but now is your chance to weigh up the choice.

 

[DannE77]

Am I reading that right, he says the 2.0 is more economical than the 1.6 in real mpg average?

 

[PaulE]

No Dan, I'm not saying that. I am saying in real terms the 2.0Hdi isn't significantly thirstier than the 1.6 Hdi and I'm basing this on the stats given on the Honest John web site, that I identify. As I hope we all know the Government's official figures for fuel consumption are often massively optimistic and I have found the real mpg figures quoted on the Honest John web site tally with my experience of cars I have owned. The web site gives 48.9mpg for the 1.6Hdi 110 bhp and 51.9mpg for the 1.6e-Hdi EGS6. The 2.0Hdi is given as 50.4 mpg. Consumption can of course vary with different driving styles, roads, speeds etc, but as I guide I put more faith in the 'Real MPG Averages' given by Honest John. Other costs such as insurance and road tax may make the 2.0Hdi more expensive, but I don't know the 1.6 costs in this regard. Any costs have to be weighed against the overall ownership of a 2.0Hdi verses the 1.6Hdi, of course and having driven both I think the 2.0Hdi is a better vehicle for my needs and values. You may think differently, Dan, and that's why Citroen offer a choice.

 

[DannE77]

Sorry Paul I didn't mean you say its more economical I ment the web site that was put up 'honest John'...... I was asking if I was reading the 'honest John' web page right that he says the 2.0 is more economical.

Just out of interest how much is car tax for the 2.0Hdi, for the 1.6 it is £105 for the year which I was a little disappointed with. I changed my car so I didn't have to pay much tax, insurance and fuel etc but in all fairness my budget was 12k and the 1.6 diesel fit in that category were the 2.0 was over the budget by far.

Its not just how economical the car is its how much the car is to start with too. I was initially thinking of buying a new Volvo V40 R design 1.6 as it is car tax exempt and better mpg, however at the beginning of the year my girlfriend found out she is pregnant and we are house hunting so spending a fortune on a car was not feasible so the cheaper Citroen won hands down.

 

[g_p_t]

If you can find one of the later 115 e-HDI (with start stop) the road tax comes down to £30

 

[Frank Bullitt]

There is no real difference to speak of between the 110 and 115, although with your budget a 115 is perfectly attainable - we bought ours for the same amount 5 months ago at Motorpoint.I suspect many would prefer the 2.0HDi but price and availability on the used market dictate - we looked at an older 2011 '61 20HDi DStyle that was £1,000 less and had a few nice options (pearl white, Security Xenon Signature) but it hadn't been well looked after which you could see easily as we looked at it pre-prep; the 1.6 is no slouch and will easily return mid 50's on an indicated 75mph run.

As for the tax, I've never understood why people worry about the price (unless it's over £400 a month!) - the DS4 costs £1.50 a week more than a comparable C4, really not worth worrying about...

 

[PaulE]

No problem Dan. I agree with Frank's sentiments about the car tax cost. I'm not sure where you get the £105 figure, Dan. I can't see that amount quoted on the current tax tables - they say £110 for the 1.6Hdi manual. The 2.0Hdi costs £130 per year, which is a chunk to pay each year, but only £20 more than the 1.6Hdi and less than £11 per month, rather than just over £9 a month for the 1.6 (manual). Even my 2.0Hdi automatic is only £145 (£12 per month), which is less than two gallons of fuel and much less than older automatic cars of the same sized engine used to be. Unfortunately, living in the very far south west, the choice of 2nd hand DS4s within 100 miles is very limited, especially for automatics (there were none when I bought!) - the likes of Motorpoint are a distant dream (literally), meaning a drive of several hundred miles to buy (and hope thare are no faults after purchase) or buy a 2nd hand car through Citroen, who would ship the car down, but I would have had to commit to buy unseen and I'm not that brave, so I bought new, with a view to keeping the car for about 7 years, to reduce the truly awful depreciation that you suffer when buying new.

 

[Frank Bullitt]

Unfortunately, living in the very far south west, the choice of 2nd hand DS4s within 100 miles is very limited, especially for automatics (there were none when I bought!) - the likes of Motorpoint are a distant dream (literally), meaning a drive of several hundred miles to buy (and hope thare are no faults after purchase) or buy a 2nd hand car through Citroen, who would ship the car down, but I would have had to commit to buy unseen and I'm not that brave, so I bought new, with a view to keeping the car for about 7 years, to reduce the truly awful depreciation that you suffer when buying new.

We bought a smart from Ipswich (unseen, 90 miles away and delivered when paid for), the old Picasso from Bury St Edmunds (60 miles), an A2 from Derby (90 miles, collected having been unseen) and the DS4 from motorpoint in Derby, unseen - I have no issue with doing a deal then traveling although in a number of those cases we sold private so didn't have a complication of part-ex, we part exed the Picasso for the DS4 and despite offering top-book the price was as-agreed. The DS4 was taxed and prepped and if we didn't like any aspect of it at all then I was entitled to get my £300 deposit back and walk - an inconvenience but worth it for the price and he car was as-described.

The girl who bought our smart did so unseen and travelled from Bristol (160 miles), she even paid for it before seeing it as I wouldn't release the car without cleared funds.

It takes a leap of faith perhaps but when dealing with a Citroen dealer or car supermarket they will sort any issues even if it needs a bit of effort.

 

[PaulE]

That's interesting Frank. I had a C5 to part exchange and the Citroen dealer said that once they ordered the second hand DS4 from Citroen, I would be committed to buy, which I wasn't prepared to do. I got a very discount off my new DS4 which helped with the purchase.

 

[Frank Bullitt]

It's one of motorpoints selling advantages - chatting to the bloke on the phone who I did the deal with (in the office, not on the sales floor I might add) he explained that in most cases RFL is £2-£15 per month which as a business they felt was worth having 'sat' in the car to offer the ability for people to walk-in and walk away with the car all prepped and ready to go; I did pay my deposit but I could have driven to Derby, done the deal and driven away in the DS4; my car had tax to January in it so as part of the deal I paid 9 months tax on it. As a business they find the offer hugely popular.

I sound like a motorpoint salesman, but to be honest as somebody who is savvy about the market and 'value' I can't fault their approach.

 

[PaulE]

I can see why you favour them, Frank. What is the RFL that you mention?

 

[Frank Bullitt]

Road Fund License - road tax!

 

[PaulE]

Thanks Frank. I just realised as I watched a recording of James May's Cars of the People on TV.

 

[DannE77]

Frank, the reason why Ihad such a thing about cheap road taxis because I was making a complete change to my car. I have owned the DS4 for about3months now and I wanted something cheap to run and maintain. Ip/x my old car which was a Subaru Impreza STI 08 model (Hatchback) and the road tax was £475 a year which I owned for 4 years. The car before that was a 54 plate Subaru Impreza STI which was £275 which again I owned for 5 years so I felt that I wanted to pay the least amount of road tax possible this time around. (paying nothing was what I actually wanted but beggars cannot be choosers)

I have never been to Motorpoint but I take it that its similar to Arnold Clark (car supermarket). I originally went Arnold Clark to get an idea of what I could get for my money and that's when I saw the DS4, I would of walked away with a car from them that day but they would not give me enoughp/x for my car. I went straight to the citroen dealership and bough a car from them as they gave me almost £1000 more for my car, so was pretty happy with that.
As for the £105 for my car tax I am sure that's what I was told by either Arnold Clark or Citroen. The car has come with road tax so I cannot confirm it as I have not had to pay for it yet.

 

[DannE77]

it looks like the road tax has gone up slightly as of April this year so that's a possibly why I was told £105? My Impreza would of cost £485 this year instead of the £475, glad I am not paying that any more.

 

[Frank Bullitt]

No, motorpoint aren't like Arnold Clark - AC are a dealer group whose reputation precedes them, and that's not a good thing in their case - they do have some 'outlets' though which is probably what you visited. They are consistently unable to retain customers.

They aren't known as A-hole Shark for nothing...

 

[DoomWolf]

They won't be able to do that for very much longer as the road tax changes coming in on 1st October, as well as abolishing the paper tax disc, mean that tax will not be transferred with the vehicle.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/vehicle-tax-changes

It's also worth noting the change to the driving licence from 1st January 2015 that scraps the paper counterpart to the photocard licence. You can even check your licence details (name, address, vehicle categories, points etc) on a website (https://www.gov.uk/view-driving-licence).

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/driving-licence-changes

Edited by: DoomWolf

 

[Frank Bullitt]

The new rules mean you can tax a car instantly so it won't be an issue in future in the same way that it is at present if tax isn't already on.

Buying a car where there is no internet connection (ie if you have Vodafone 3G which is dreadful now) will be interesting, or if you don't use the internet.

 

[unners]

W2 have 2 DS4's the 110 and the 115 (not the e-hdi) engine, the 115 is noticeably quicker and smoother then the 110